351 winchester vs 30 carbine

Bottom line? spent to get the military issue version of the carbine will be money well spent. 2 - The lighter bullet of the .30 Carbine made for much lighter ammunition. Remington continues to offer factory ammo, and its 200-grain factory load has a muzzle velocity of 2675 f.p.s., while the 250-grain loads muzzle velocity is 2400 f.p.s. Another article, said at first Winchester wanted to use the 32 WSL for WW2, but military brass wanted 30 caliber, so Winchester designed the 30 Carbine, still popular today. 24 inch barrel. And Barnes makes a 200-grain TSX bullet designed for this cartridge that, when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows the .350 Rem. Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. The 35 Remington also uses a bullet about 18% heavier and with over 35% more frontal surface area (.1007 vs .0745 square inches). There are a few problems with this answer. Chambered for a .351-cal. H Winchester Round Barrel Rifle, made in 1882. Heavy, slow, not very accuate, and now days ammo is next to impossible to find. The 351 WSL fired a 180 gr SP at 1850 fps, this is much higher than the 357 Magnum fired out of a lever action rifle, a 180 gr SP at 1500 fps. First year gun, manufactured in 1939, Pre-WWII. with a 30 round magazine! From my collection Winchester 1894. Unfortunately, finding .401 or .351 Winchester ammo is also pretty difficult as well, though its still possible to find the odd box of factory ammunition and the necessary reloading supplies from places like Buffalo Arms. Most have had an active life in the woods earning their keep, not being just stored away in the closet. It arrived with three other cartridges designed to compete with Winchester's popular lever-action lineup. Ruger's fine New Model Blackhawk extends the .30 Carbine cartridge's versatility. I have all the calibers but short the 401 s and the 22 autos ,can you reload or sell a dox of each. 26" barrels with F A near flawless vintage Voere Nato Imperial control round feed Mauser bolt action made in Austria. The Model 1910 rifles were also prone to cracking of the forearm. Show Only Guns Several manufacturers submitted proposals, and Winchester's little "United States Carbine, Caliber .30, M1," or, more simply, the M1 carbine, was the winning design. This is an Oviedo 1918 Spanish mauser chambered in .308 Winchester. The .358 Win. Sadly, I cant find a single major gunmaker chambering this cartridge today. Another comparison is a .357 Magnum cartridge fired from an 18" rifle barrel, which has a muzzle velocity range from about 1,7182,092ft/s (524638m/s) with energies at 7201,215ftlbf (9761,647J) for a 110gr (7.1g) bullet at the low end and a 125gr (8.1g) bullet on the high end.[11]. Winchester 1907 I believe was made in 1908 semi automatic 351 caliber has a couple of clips with it. .351 s.l. The .35 Rem. In that year, the .308 Winchester replaced the .30-06 Springfield in American military arsenals, and the NATO version of the Winchester, the 7.62x51mm, is still in service around the world. bumping this, I obtained a magazine for the first one shown up top - for a mere $64. He killed a large 4x4 buck that day. The .35 Rem. This design allowed the use of a simple blowback action, shared between the Winchester 1905, 1907, and 1910 rifles. Does anyone know if any gunsmith ever converted a 30 Carbine to 32 WSL? As such, the following is for comparative information purposes only and should not be used to make precise predictions of the trajectory, performance, or true ballistics of any particular .30 M1 Carbine or .30-30 Winchester rounds for hunting, target shooting, plinking, or any other usage. Sellier & Bellot: 1947 fps. lbs., which is lower than normal .223 hunting and varmint loads. For a while Savage chambered it in the Model 99, and I am still looking for one I can afford. IMO, any of them would be a good choice. Midway USA, for example, which is among the best at keeping ammo in stock, reports 35 varieties of .30-30 while only 15 offerings of .350 Legend. Versatility refers to the range of animals that could be realistically harvested with a cartridge. Winchester offered .351 WSL factory loads loaded with 180-grain jacketed soft point round nose bullets. Hopefully the forearm wood isn't splintered up. The muzzle velocity was stated to be 1850 fps, and the muzzle energy 1370 ft.-lbs. Loved by gun guys and rejected by the huddled masses, this is perhaps the most underappreciated cartridge of them all. Know those parts well. (For context, Federals highest-BC 6.5 Creedmoor clocks in at .607.). The .38 Smith & Wesson Special, designed in 1898, rocked the handgun realm with its ballistic performance making it a cartridge for the history books. A typical 35 Remington factory load (200gr bullet at 2,080fps) has about 5% more energy than a normal 30-30 factory load (170gr bullet at 2,200fps). When chambered for cartridges such as the .243 Win., 6 mm Rem., .308 Win. Do not take the 1907 apart. into the deer woods, and I pine for what could have been. Perhaps Military Rifle would have been a better term. There are photos of hunters taking a polar bear with a 357 Mag revolver! For more detailed ballistics information please refer to the exact round in question or contact the manufacturer for the pertinent information. WINCHESTER 1907 351. As illustrated in the chart, .30 M1 Carbine rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 1990 feet per second (fps) while .30-30 Winchester rounds travel at a velocity of 2370 fps. Its said that the French used it in World War I, but it probably didnt see much action. WOOD HAS A REPAIR AT THE WRIST. The same probably goes for the AR-15 when they think of a semi auto police patrol rifle. With the best loads, my Remington Model 700 is one-hole accurate. Every time I use it I ask myself, Whats not to like? Beats me, but nobody liked it enough to keep it in production. NICE BRIGHT BORE. The long accepted story was that James V. Howe developed the cartridge in 1922 and named it in honor of his friend, gunwriter Col. Townsend Whelen. Federal does not market any of their .350 Legend options as elk cartridges. Heres how the cartridges compare, pricewise. I would like some information if possible on approximate value if in good usable condition. The 94 Winchester would have been a good place for the .401 s.l. Please try a new zip code and search again. Oddly, its bullet diameter is truly .351-inch instead of the .358-inch normally associated with rounds such as .35 Whelen, .35 Winchester or .35 Remington. Yet, that bore diameter produces some of the best hunting cartridges available. Everybody agrees that the .358 Win. The ammunition hung on a while longer, but eventually Big Green abandoned her babies and stopped making both cartridges. The first design was further modified for Winchester's second prototype, adopted September 30, 1941 as the Carbine Caliber .30, M1. is a wonderful cartridge, but nobody buys them. Many have complained about the cartridges themselves saying that they were way under powered and useless and only good for squirrels to coyotes, they must be talking about the 22LR. Norma offers factory ammunition, E.R. Right now, I think that the Browning BLR lever-action rifle is the only production gun left on the market in .358 Win. With a 200-grain bullet the .35 Whelen actually shoots a bit flatter than the .30-06 Sprg. The .350 Legend has some catching up to do if it wants to rival its 127-year-old predecessor. It was introduced in the bolt-action Model 70 in which it was trustworthy, but boring. Neither Winchester cartridge was truly suitable for anything larger than small deer, and that might have been pushing it. You might already know this. was simply a .308 Win. During the early 1900s, the folks atWinchester learned that their main competitor, Remington, was working on a centerfire autoloading rifle suitable for hunting big game. However, the calibers available in the Model 1905, the .32 Self Loading (.32 SL) and the .35 Self Loading (.35 SL), were realistically pretty underpowered for satisfactory use on big game. round barrel worn finish and cracked butt plate please view pictures for condition. But they are so few in number that no general conclusion can be drawn from them. [5] Most ammunition available today for the .351 SL is produced by a few boutique manufacturers, often using either cast lead bullets or copper-plated bullets or, occasionally, .358 jacketed bullets resized to .351 or .352 caliber. Most used hard and put away wet. ANTIQUE MADE IN 1891. SMOOTH PATINA METAL. With this matchup, the winner depends on the specific loads being compared. GI#: 102196509. from a 20 inch rifle barrel, which is lower than any .30-30 load published in the Winchester ammo catalog. The .401 WSL fired a 200 grain .406caliber soft point bullet at 2,140 feet per second for a walloping 2,034 ft-lbs of energy. Common types used by the military with the carbine include: The .30 Carbine was the basis for Melvin M. Johnson's .22 Spitfire (5.7x33mm), necking the .30 Carbine's case down to a .22 caliber bullet. With overall 50% blue mixing to dark brown patina. In rifle cartridges, we usually take the safe route and .30-caliber has emerged as the American shooters choice. The .350 Legend goes for $1.15 to $2.30/round and the .30-30 Winchester anywhere from $1.15 to $4.70/round. Posted February 22, 2017 in Ammunition, AR-15, Daily News, Guns & Gear, Other Gear & Gadgets, Rifles by Nathaniel F with 123 CommentsTags: .30 carbine, 7.62, 7.62x33, assault rifle, ballistics, carbine, drop, Education, energy, history, M2, performance, personal defense weapon, rifle, second world war, us carbine m1 .30 cal, velocity, world war 2, world war ii, ww2, wwII, Left to right: .351 WSL, .30 M1 Carbine, .45 ACP, 5.7x28mm SS190, 5.56x45mm M193. Don't own one, shot one quite a lot back in the day when a kinsman had one. Fusion Ammo has a 200-grain with a muzzle velocity of 2800 f.p.s. 94 1946 excellent condition. We determine a cartridges shootability by considering its cost, availability, and recoil energy. [6], A number of handguns have been chambered for .30 Carbine ammunition. Please click the above links to take a look at all of the .30 M1 Carbine and .30-30 Winchester ammo we have in stock and ready to ship, and let us know any parting thoughts in the comment section below. In firearms with a blowback action like the Model 1903, the breech is not locked and depends on a balance between the cartridge pressure characteristics, the heavy breechblock, and a powerful recoil spring for reliable functioning. The .351 SL proved popular with police and security forces as the only chambering available in the model 1907, and was used by France in both world wars. Dear Socialists: I have no money for you. Winchester still offers ammunition, but the guns are history. I'm kind of surprised the .351 wasn't made originally to use .357 bullets, since that bore size had already been established by that point. Shootability Its too bad that no other companies picked up the 32 WSL, 35 WSL, 351WSL and 401 WSL . was included in that party is a mystery, as it had no Winchester counterpart. With six rounds on tap, it makes a good hog-hunting gun as long as heavy shoulder bone is avoided. Rifle Carbines are available in 40 S&W, and some use it to hunt deer and wild hogs, but even the 32 WSL and 35 WSL beat it in ballistics. Winchester sold both soft point and FMJ ammunition for the .351 SL cartridge over the years. The Big Game Hunting Blog is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.ca, Amazon.com.au, and other Amazon stores worldwide. Mag. By and large, we shooters seem to gravitate to the middle of the road; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity. [9], The popularity of the M1 carbine for collecting, sporting, and re-enactment use has resulted in continued civilian popularity of the .30 Carbine cartridge. In 1968 the 600 Magnum was replaced by the Model 660 Magnum, which featured a 20-inch barrel, but it was never a big seller, and Remington dropped the rifles. This .350 Legend from Federal, for example, can launch a 160-grain bullet about 2,300 feet-per-second while this .30-30 fires a 150-grain bullet about the same speed. All we do know for sure is that it was either Howe or Whelen, or both, who necked the .30-06 Sprg. The .30 Carbine cartridge was developed by Winchester and is basically a rimless .30 caliber ( 7.62 mm) version of the much older .32 Winchester Self-Loading cartridge of 1906 introduced for the Winchester Model 1905 rifle. necked up to .35 caliber. The Plainfield Machine Company (later taken over by Iver Johnson's Arms) sold a sporting rifle copy of the M1 carbine chambered for this cartridge but only about 500 were made. But unfortunately, only rifles made for these cartridges was Winchester, no one else chambered them, how come? I reload for both the 351 and 401 win sl, they do quite well, and are a hoot to shoot. ARMSCORs RIA 5.0 ST semi-automatic 9 mm Luger pistol represents the companys first handgun to be designed and manufactured here in the United States. The .32 Self-Loading fired a 165 grain bullet at 1,390 feet per second (708 ft-lbs of energy) and the .35 Self-Loading fired a 180 grain bullet at 1,390 feet per second (772 ft-lbs of energy). hit the market in 1895 paired with Winchester's now . We don't use the same bullets for 30-30 Win and .308 Win and 7.62x39mm. Shaw will make a rifle, as will any other custom, or semi-custom, riflemaker. loaded with a 180-grain Oryx bullet to the .358 Norma Mag. Comments have to be approved before showing up, 2023 Foundry Outdoors - All Rights Reserved, Product successfully added to your Shopping Cart, 223 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 243 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 25 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 300 RSAUM Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Ammo, 7mm RSAUM Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Ammo, .30 M1 Carbine vs .30-30 Winchester Ammo Comparison - Ballistics Info & Chart. 80% BLUE, NICE BORE. I too have an M1, and also two 1907's - both from the first year of production. The M1 used an unusual gas-operated system designed for a special .30 caliber cartridge. I read Thompson made a experimental rifle in 351 WSL. As a result, it has approximately 41% higher muzzle velocity with 27% more impact energy than the parent .32 WSL cartridge. .30-30 Win, .35 Rem, .351 WSL, a.o., sizes. The barrel is a full 22 inches, like it always should have been, but the foolish design with the huge shark fin front sight turned hunters off, and it was dropped. The M1 and M2 carbines continued in service during the Korean War. Try Buffalo arms in Idaho for brass and bullets for reloading. Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester, 26" barrel. I did read a article that said in the 1920s, the military tried experimented using a Remington model 1908 in 25 Remington and soldiers liked shooting it as compared to bolt action 30-06. Probably well over half of the production for the last ten years went to police organizations in the United States. I have a .356 Win. This is the Winchester model 1906 .22 LR pump action 20 in. I believe it never will. For quality hunting ammunition, expect to pay $30-$45 for a box of 20. [6] (The .30 Carbine's relatively straight case and round nose bullet have misled some to believe it was designed for use in pistols.) Make sure you subscribe toThe Big Game Hunting Podcastand follow The Big Game Hunting Blog onFacebook,Instagram,Twitter, andYouTube. It would cost into the 800dollar range just to rebuild one. A blowback action in the most basic autoloading action. These cartridges stack up so closely from a ballistics standpoint that neither can claim to hit harder than the other. Lyman peep sight Slight fade bluing on receiver- stocks, barrel, butt plate, receiver/lever in beau 100% barrel and bore Wood in great condition Made 1951 30-30 Winchester. The two really dont compare. Hard to find here in Canada. and is probably a better deer and black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the more popular .30-30 Win. has been offered in just about every rifle action type ever conceived and a few handguns. Rifles; Sako Rifles; Savage Rifles. were to go head to head with the .25-35 Win.,. It is a light rifle round[2][3][4][5] designed to be fired from the M1 carbine's 18-inch (458mm) barrel. Its a good time to own a rifle chambered in the .350. While a few gun writers in the 1960s criticized the .351 SL for being inadequate as a deer hunting round, and the round's power has sometimes been compared to a .357 Magnum carbine load, the .351 SL's killing power falls somewhere between the .30-30 Winchester and the .35 Remington. When we pitted the 30 Carbine vs 5.56, the 5.56 won 7/10 categories and tied in two, thanks to its low recoil and high accuracy capabilities. Been looking for a deal on a nice M1 Carbine these last few months in preparing for the eventual Zombie apocalypse. Winchester and Hornady both offer 200-grain loads at 2475 f.p.s. Moderate, safe, bland and predictable. predecessor, the Model 1907 was an immediate hit . 26" Barrel. Using basically the same action, they introduced the Winchester Model 1910 semi-automatic rifle along with the .401 Winchester Self Loading (.401WSL) in the spring of 1910. Sell your 351 winchester for FREE today on GunsAmerica! Federal only offers two bullet weights for the Legend (160 grain and 180 grain). Save your pennies and hold out for the M1 Carbinethen save your pennies and start stocking away ammo and magazines. And I thought .348 Win was tough to find. That seems to happen a bunch to the rifles that had an active life! The 32 WSL duplicated the 32-40 ballistics. the 32 was the hardest one to come up with, There are a lot of 351 out there and some very nice ones, Thanks for this article and the information in it. They shot lever actions and bolt actions, and probably didnt understand semi auto rifles. The .30 Carbine was developed from the .32 Winchester Self-Loading used in an early semi-auto sporting rifle. As illustrated in the chart, .30 M1 Carbine rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 1990 feet per second (fps) while .30-30 Winchester rounds travel at a velocity of 2370 fps. The record contains a few examples of carbine-aimed fire felling an enemy soldier at this distance or perhaps a little more. All of this might sound like splitting hairs, and it is. Mag., and I think thats the only current production rifle in that cartridge. The 32 Winchester Self-Loading Cartridge is the parent case for the 30 Carbine. Jim in Idaho #7914589 07/19/13. This 180-grain load from Federal drops 9.4 inches at 200 yards and 34.1 inches at 300 yards. [2], While a few gun writers in the 1960s criticized the .351 SL for being inadequate as a deer hunting round, and the round's power has sometimes been compared to a .357 Magnum carbine load, the .351 SL's killing power falls somewhere between the .30-30 Winchester and the .35 Remington. We have a variety of deals on Rifle Ammo, Handgun Ammo, Shotgun Ammo & Rimfire Ammo, as well as ammo for target practice, plinking, hunting, or shooting competitions. Released in 2019, the Legend was designed for use in states that restrict deer hunters to straight-wall cartridges and was billed as the fastest such cartridge currently in production. Having owned several different rifles chambered in .351 WSL and .401 WSL over the years, I can attest to the fact that they are quite good at what they were designed to do: cleanly take North American deer and black bear size game when hunting in close cover where quick shots might be called for. Many companies now offer bolt, semi-auto, and single-shot rifles chambered in the Legend, but the .30-30 can be found in the same variety. Sorry, there are no results in your area. Where carbine fire had proven killing effect, approximately 95 percent of the time the target was dropped at less than 50 yards. The Model 351 C is an AirWeight variation of Smith & Wesson Centennial Model. Why cant we love the .35? McPherson. The 32 Winchester Self-Loading Cartridge is the parent case for the 30 Carbine. 351 winchester for sale and auction. Standard government-issue rounds reach over 1,500ft/s (460m/s), with factory loads, and handloads producing similar velocities or tuned for more efficient short-barrel performance without excessive blast. With a 10 mph crosswind, the bullet shifts 7.4 inches and 17.8 inches at those distances, respectively. That is to say, .30 M1 Carbine bullets travel 2.3 times the speed of a 737 airplane at cruising speed, while .30-30 Winchester bullets travel 2.7 times that same speed. Winchester Model 74 Semi-Auto, Pre-War .22 short. This is an Oviedo 1916 Spanish mauser chambered in .308 Winchester. was introduced in 1955. It was predictable that the .356 Win. Other firms and individual designers submitted several carbine designs, but most prototypes were either unreliable or grossly off the target weight of five pounds. "the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!". The 351 WSL looks like a somewhat larger version of the 30 Carbine round, although the 351 is more powerful. The US .30 cal M1 Carbine is one of the most important developments in the personal defense weapon story, being one of the very first* intermediate calibers to be adopted as standard issue by a nation, and arguably the first purpose-designed PDW caliber in history. Winchester introduced the .351 SL in the Winchester Model 1907 self-loading rifle as a replacement for the Winchester Model 1905 and the .35 SL. Mossberg .22 LR models 340 340A 340B 340M 342 342K 344 344K 346K 346B 350 350K 351 352 352K 353 Rifl Winchester mod. Upon firing, the breechblock is delayed in its opening by its weight and spring pressure until the rising chamber pressure overcomes the inertia of the bolt. The .358 Norma Mag. The carbine and cartridge were not intended to serve as a primary infantry weapon, nor was it comparable to more powerful intermediate cartridges later developed for assault rifles. The .350 wins that power matchup, but this 170-grain .30-30 option offers 1,827 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle while this heavier, 180-grain .350 Legend only produces 1,762 ft.-lbs. 351 Winchester Self/ Loading 12 HRN390552 19 LEE90004 15 LY7738055 19 RCBS09219 5 RED11005 [1], The 835mm cartridge of the Ribeyrolles M1918 was based on the .351 SL. as a way to boost the power of the Model 94 lever-action rifle. The Rifle In America (p728, 730-731, & 733) was used as a referencefor the history of the cartridges discussed as well as their ballistic data. If youd like to read some of the other posts my father has written for this blog, visit the links below: The .219 Zipper: A Good Cartridge That Didnt Quite Pan Out, One Mans Attempt At Explaining Hunting To Non-Hunters, 405 Winchester: Roosevelts Medicine Gun For Lions. This gun has a story. sam be yourself net worth; used robalo boats for sale by owner; nolin lake ponderosa homes for sale; neville staple wife; university of miami pay grade scale c111 This means I will earn a small commission (at no extra cost to you) if you make a purchase. And the Winner Is Perhaps thats why it has survived. The company has chambered several rifles in the cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic. Itsnodawayitustabe Registered Joined Apr 12, 2016 While the American mainstream wont accept the .35, they are not unloved. These were theWinchester Self-Loading (WSL) rounds, including .32 WSL, .35 WSL, .351 WSL, and .401 WSL. To put this into perspective, a Boeing 737 commercial airliner travels at a cruising speed of 600 mph, or 880 fps. Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester. while finding .30 carbine ammo can be a challenge at times, finding adequate quantities of .351 SL would seem an impossible task. But in 2003 Remington decided to attempt a resurrection. Remington loads a 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s. I have fired them all except the .22waiting for some ammo. A postwar U.S. Army evaluation reported that "[t]here are practically no data bearing on the accuracy of the carbine at ranges in excess of 50 yards. zero-we see that contrary to popular belief, a 35-caliber can be a long-range cartridge. could have been necked down to .30 and would have made a better round for the M1. Even though Winchester developed a round suitable for straight blowback actions, the rifle they eventually submitted designed by William Roemer and Fred Humeston, and based on the work done by convict David Marshall Williams was a gas-operated, locked breech design. The .351 WSL did grab a bit of fame, first as a popular rifle for prison guards and then as one of the rifles used to punch a lot of holes in Bonnie and Clydes automobile (although that accolade is in question). This helps support the blog and allows me to continue to create free content thats useful to hunters like yourself. Smooth handsome gun with fine wood to metal fit and overall light handling marks, wi WINCHESTER 1910 401. The M1 carbine was issued to infantry officers; machine gun, artillery and tank crews; paratroopers; and other line-of-communications personnel in lieu of the larger, heavier M1 Garand.
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351 winchester vs 30 carbine 2023